| Author |
Message |
dave
Member
Post Number: 171
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 - 7:24 am: | 
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just heard on north bay radio that there's a 25 year plan to 4 lane 11 from north bay to manitoba...anyone else hear about this? or trying to figure out how it's physically possible to do so between marten river and temagami? |
andrewh
Member
Post Number: 34
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 - 2:35 pm: |
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This idea came from an organization called Working Forest who recently published a report. It was no way associated with any long term planning of the provincial or federal governments.
It is however physically possible to four-lane the highway. All we have to do is look at the work being done on Hwy 69 between Parry Sound and Sudbury as it is much the same geography.
The province first needs to finish Hwy 69 (2017) and Hwy 11 (2012) then look at tackling 4-laning Hwy 17 between Ottawa and Sudbury (20??).
In my opinion we will never see four-lanes from North Bay through Temagami, as our transportation methods (ie. no more gas, more rail) will change well before this is ever discussed seriously. |
dave
Member
Post Number: 172
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 - 5:05 pm: |
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well according to north bay radio they're saying the city is saying that it's happening. but i stil can't imagine HOW they'd by-pass temagami with cottaging lakes on either side
either way i see this as a huge waste of taxpayers money as it's not even a busy highway during the busiest times of the year
also, the widening of 11 has been pushed past 2012 now..i forget what they said they target date now is
(Message edited by dave on November 4, 2009) |
brian
Moderator
Post Number: 1118
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 - 6:28 pm: |
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Andrew is correct that the province has greater priorities in other corridors. And look how many years it took to accomplish the four-laning north to North Bay (they started talking when I was a kid) and make to a commitment to 69 even in the aftermath of all the traffic deaths. Maybe the North Bay media is just boosting the local boosterism. |
dave
Member
Post Number: 173
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 - 6:39 pm: |
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possibly...there was that idea, but also they're prepping the new by-pass to go around by trout lake (though they admit that's a ways away as they feel the current hwy is sufficient)..but they've already been buying up places and tearing them down
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preacher
Member
Post Number: 77
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 5, 2009 - 1:56 pm: |
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"
In my opinion we will never see four-lanes from North Bay through Temagami, as our transportation methods (ie. no more gas, more rail) will change well before this is ever discussed seriously.
"
You got a tip from Warren Buffet? 
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alscool
Moderator
Post Number: 214
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 5, 2009 - 3:01 pm: |
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The boys on Top Gear (BBC) other night were saying that new studies show that trains don't meet the efficiency of cars, despite the number of passengers, here is a quick reference
http://www.lafn.org/~dave/trans/energy/rail_vs_aut oEE.html |
dave
Member
Post Number: 177
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 5, 2009 - 4:20 pm: |
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plus it's incredibly expensive...north bay to toronto would cost me over $100 by train, then have to bus to hamilton...north bay to hamilton by car costs me approx. $50 at summer gas pricing |
dan_carpenter
Moderator
Post Number: 58
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 5, 2009 - 8:42 pm: |
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Given that the Route 17 route from North Bay to Thunder Bay is a lot more populated and heavily traveled than the more northern Route 11 route (I have traveled both), I can't imagine that there will be a 4-lane highway through Temagami anytime soon. The only time I've seen anything remotely resembling heavy traffic on Route 11 is in areas of highway repair or construction, and those areas are usually few and far between.
(Message edited by dan_carpenter on November 5, 2009) |
andrewh
Member
Post Number: 35
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 6, 2009 - 8:53 am: |
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My reference was for moving freight by rail instead of by trucks. We all know Hwy 11 is a major trucking route, and expansion of the highway for the most part would be based on making the highway safer with all the trucks on it. I think rail has potential to be more effecient and less expensive than maintaining and expanding our highways and bridges for the abuse they take from transports. Note that this four-laning report came from the forest/trucking industry and they would be the first ones to oppose a shift in our transportation methods.
From the intro of the report you posted it looks like this claim is only for todays cars being more effecient than passenger trains...
"The rolling resistance of a train (per ton of vehicle weight) is only a small fraction of that of an automobile or truck. Thus one would expect railroads to be a few times more energy-efficient than autos or trucks. While this is often true for the comparison with trucks, it's seldom true when comparing a passenger train with the automobile."
In any case, I don't think we have to worry about four-laning north to Temagami. Pretty interesting, many of the comments on the Nugget website were all for building this highway. |
dave
Member
Post Number: 179
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 5:36 pm: |
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there's only approximately 33 000 cars and trucks passing through north bay daily (includes residents)...i think people up here just like to hop on bandwagons regardless of how non-sensical the idea may be |
preacher
Member
Post Number: 78
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 4:35 pm: |
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I don't understand why the idea is nonsense?
For example. If a road is being used by double the traffic it was built for, does it not make sense to re-build the road?
**funny thing, language filter doesn't allow me to use "doesn't" in a sentence when it's followed by "it". Reads it as colloquialism for breast.**haha
That stretch from North Bay to Temagami isn't the worst stretch of road, but it sure isn't the best! |
canoebear
Member
Post Number: 512
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 4:39 am: |
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"business as usual"
Tha fur trade started to decline in tha NE by late 1700's. Tha decline resulted chiefly from clear-cutten of large areas fer settlements & now widenen highways. As more & more "Old Growth Groups" 'twas logged-out, cleared away & burned fur-Bearen animals became increasenly scatter scarce. Over trappen, over hunten, as well as now, roadkills hurt tha skittish animals to a injurious process of a kill-lane license allowed permit operations by that ther hastened accelerated fleet of road warriors.
Just in North America alone, every single day that goes by, 1,000,000 of sorted wildlife is fer-ever silenced by venturen-out, crossen paths with transports & such.
Tha normal course of same action, in tha normal, habitual/or accustomed-way, that thins be still continuen in ther usual-way/ or progressive mannor of movement.
So what else is new?
'Tis most often happens in 'tis here-way & to be expected, in keep on go-en tha same course road of hurry-UP & forge ahead.
'Tis time to break out of old routines.
When people get into a routine, ther brains often shift into neutral. They become less likely to spot changes in tha environment & less likely to question what they be do-en & how they R go-en bout do-en it.
Embedded in routes R assumptions bout "MOM's World" & how it works, assumptions we all often mistake fer reality. And when "Mother Earth" changes "Her" looks, ways & developes an attitude faster than our assumption bout "Her" come into play, chance change alert warnens of rough road may lie ahead.
Succumb recipe fer dealen with anger/or fustration 'tis set tha kitchen timer fer 15 minutes/or so in order to cry abit, rant/or rave till tha sound of tha bell alarms U that time has certainly run-out. So just simmer down, take a deep breath & to go bout what U wer do-en before be-en detoured, fall-in-line, be "business as usual" again.
Near North as advertised; 'Tis very bright, aridly hot, no trees/or animals round, but lots of concrete + pavement left by tha aftermath mowen, Heya!
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shutter_speed
Member
Post Number: 40
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 5:29 am: |
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Well said, canoebear! |
andrewh
Member
Post Number: 36
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 12:20 pm: |
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To help answer your question preacher - This info on traffic volumes is from a Environmental Study Report published by MTO in Fall 2009 for re-paving Hwy 11-north of Temagami. The numbers would be somewhat similar for the areas south of Temagami.
Average Daily Traffic Volume 2008 = 3300 vehicles
Projected Daily Traffic Volumes 2018 = 3600
Projected Daily Traffic Volumes 2028 = 4000
A general guideline is that a two-lane highway can handle up to 8000-10000 vehicles per day. There are roughly 8000 vehicles per day on Hwy 17 east and west of North Bay.
Other factors for 4-laning include accident rates, and as always...politics.
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preacher
Member
Post Number: 79
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 1:39 pm: |
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tks!
So according to their own numbers it will be 30 years before there's any reason to consider this.
There's always the flipside of, If you build it they will come. |
kim
Member
Post Number: 259
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 1:58 pm: |
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Those numbers dont look good for any proposed increases in tourist traffic ($$) for the area. |
curly
Member
Post Number: 187
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 7:30 pm: |
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I wonder if the projected increases take into account changes resulting from the completion of the 4-lane to North Bay?
BTW, wanted to mention that the new North Bay bypass (if it ever comes to pass) is a Hwy 17 bypass, not an 11 bypass. It won't affect Hwy 11 traffic. Thru traffic on Hwy 17 will get off east of NB, go behind the mall, parallel the existing hwy, and rejoin 17 near the new hospital west of town. |
dave
Member
Post Number: 180
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 2:02 pm: |
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how can it rejoin where the new hospital is? i don't understand that at all...maybe the picture i'm getting is way off. |
curly
Member
Post Number: 188
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 8:59 am: |
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Lots of room at the west end of town, but a lot of development going on there too. |
andrewh
Member
Post Number: 37
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 4:05 pm: |
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I think the plan is for the new freeway to meet up with the existing 4-lane bypass just before O'Brien Street. At this point, the new freeway will follow the existing 4-lanes all the way past the hospital. It will however be a closed access freeway meaning there will be interchanges at Algonquin (Hwy 11) and one at the Gormanville/Hosiptal area. O'Brien Street will be an overpass going over the highway with no interchange.
Plans are still at the preliminary stage. There will be more public consultation and input as the project enters a detailed design stage in the coming years.
The project has secured Environmental Assessment clearance for the preliminary design, which has allowed MTO to start acquiring property.
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barbara
Member
Post Number: 55
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 9:06 am: |
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http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/engineering/
Northern Highways Program
2007 - 2011
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/highway-cons truction/northern-highway-2007/index.shtml
2008 - 2012
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/highway-cons truction/northern-highway-2008/index.shtml
(Message edited by Barbara on November 25, 2009) |
brian
Moderator
Post Number: 1121
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 3, 2009 - 10:42 am: |
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Judy Skidmore is at the center of the four-lane dream:
http://speaker.northernontario.ca/index.php?option =com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=9 |
preacher
Member
Post Number: 81
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 3, 2009 - 1:25 pm: |
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Thanks Brian!
"In communities split by the highway — such as Temagami and Latchford - -the roadway would be widened only enough to accommodate turning lanes."
Having driven up to the Temagami are from Toronto, I would welcome the construction. That stretch of road going N from North Bay does put my teeth on edge. Eyes out for roadside wildlife, trucks whizzing past, the canoe bucking on the roof.
Always on that road either at the end of a long drive when I'm tired or at the end of a long trip when I'm tired & in that fresh-out-of-the-bush mindset.
I will miss the big motorcycle billboards though. I always think it's a giant moose. |
dave
Member
Post Number: 181
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 5:27 pm: |
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i won't lie, i love the two lane trip...minus the passing on august long weekend...it's definately a lot better than it used to be though |
lorrain
Member
Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 3:39 pm: |
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Never going to happen people. Focus your efforts on more important issues. |
Temagami general