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Message |
moyra
Member
Post Number: 16
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 8:56 pm: | 
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Hello,
I attended the Temagomi planning meeting that was held in Ottawa this week. It's too bad we didn’t have as good a tune out as last time because I think turn out matters.
This is my take on the event.
Nothing new was presented form J. Solo or the MNR. They said they were finished with the public consultation and will be coming out with the preliminary plan shortly.
What was new, was a presentation from Chris ? who odiously has been thinking allot about the historical significance of this region and the toll that is being taken by the pressures being applied. Thank you Chris, your presentation was excellent.
This was the second time I have had the opportunity to hear John Solo. It is my firm belief that Mr. Solo really 'gets' the experience that people who have canoed in this area 'get'. He has been given a teeny tiny slice of some of the most significant Canadian heritage there is in this country and, in my opinion, he knows the value of it, and how to protect what is his to protect.
I did not get that impression with the MNR representative, I believe his name was Rick Calhoun. My impression of this guy is that if there is any double, side with the forestry/mining industry. He aggressively challenged Chris about details in his presentation to put him off and then tried to shut him up complete and 'take it off line' when Chis challenged the MNR about their polices. This guy was a bully but Chris stood up to him well. Yeah Chris! Boo government official.
In the end I left the meeting feeling quite disheartened. I had recently read an article on the '10 top adventures in the world' in the Ottawa Citizen. Temagomi wasn’t there but it should have been. I think Temagomi is one of those things where; you want people to know about what a special place this is, but if the word gets out, it will destroy it, but if it doesn’t get out it will be destroyed because people don’t know to protect it.
Moyra
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tsm
Member
Post Number: 75
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 9:13 pm: |
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Moyra
Was it you that asked that Chris continue with his presentation......if so, good for you. If it was you, I was seated next to you!
I agree with what you said about John, he really does "get the Temagami experience". I had a chance to chat with Rick before the meeting started, he seens like a great guy. Parks planning certainly cannot be an easy job........certainly when it comes to Temagami. There's no pleasing everybody. I'm sure everyone in the room on Wednesday would have loved to see those maps all coloured in green, but certainly, the group that attented last year's meeting in Elk Lake last year think rather differently.
As you stated, Chris did an excellent job presenting his case....hopefully this will not have fallen on deaf ears. |
irishfield
Member
Post Number: 84
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 2:49 am: |
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?...have any of them..Salo or Calhoun bothered to take notes at any meeting you have attended? They didn't take physical note of any input in the beginning meetings last year...suggesting they have the plan already written to suit them for the last year +. Probably why they had no desire to listen to Chris. |
tsm
Member
Post Number: 76
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 7:11 am: |
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Wayne
John certainly wasn't taking notes......not sure if Rick was, but a third gentleman, whose name escapes me right now, was writing notes for sure.
My take on it was that Rick thought the audience didn't want to hear specifics from Chris, but offered to talk to Chris after the meeting, but Moyra (I think it was) set him straight.
As far as the outcome is concerned, certainly no one side will be able to claim victory.
I particularly liked Jay's plug at the end of the meeting, where he suggested that the MNR take another look at protecting the land around Spirit Rock. (or along those lines)
It truly is a shame that something so culturally sensitive be given so little protection. |
rob_in_angus
Member
Post Number: 20
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 10:01 am: |
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At the Toronto meeting it was relayed that while they lsten, if ink is not put to paper they will not react to it.
So if you want your opinion on record. Send it in. They did say they will read every submission.
While I don't think it will change the course in the near future, it is not a done deal. If there are a pile of responses on record showing support for one protection and only a few for development/resource extraction and they go the development route, when it does come time to make it law, we can then again put pressure on our politicians and ask why with so much support for protection and not much for development have they allowed so much of Temagaming to be lost to these destructive practices of logging and mining.
If you could possibly doubt how destructive resource extraction is allowed to be by our curent Conservative government, check out [url=http://www.myccr.com/SectionForums/viewtopic.php?p =191258#191258][u]this[/u][/url] discussion about the complete destruction of two Trout Ponds in Newfoundland |
kim
Member
Post Number: 189
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 10:17 am: |
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No minutes were taken at the Toronto meeting.
I did see an MNR rep counting heads though
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chris
Member
Post Number: 44
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 12:19 pm: |
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Thanks for the vote of confidence Moyra!
I wasn't sure if my points were going to come out cleanly and it was a real boost to get that support.
Regarding Minutes - I was planning on taking the work that we did for the meeting (alscool is our Mapman and he did an awsome job!) and inserting the MNR comments, or lack thereof, into the document and archiving in on our site. Now that I think of it, we could gather minutes from those who attended both meetings and post the link for everyone to read.
John did ask for my notes BTW and he has the reference images on his hard-drive. Perhaps that could be a sign...
Rick was taking notes of some sort, couldn't tell what he was writing though.
Marc,
Got your message and I think its a great idea! Perhaps an effort to put out some T-boxes could coincide with the Paddlers Clean-up weekend in May. I had actually heard something somewhere about number of boxes ready to go just sitting someplace - have to dig for that reference. Anybody? Perhaps we could try and arange some shuttles on the big lakes - which would probably be needed anyway for the garbage effort and have some materials moved into the Backcountry. Maybe we could organize a couple of drops into deeper areas and do some installations en-route. Just some thoughts...
Chris |
tsm
Member
Post Number: 77
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 1:11 pm: |
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Chris
John Salo did mention at the meeting that materials were/will be purchased and boxes built during the winter months, if I heard right. There would be that issue of training volunteers though I guess.
Certainly, without a push, the MNR isn't going to have privies in the "real" back country for a while. |
kim
Member
Post Number: 191
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 2:01 pm: |
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chris ...Christ on another forum........
There are 3 completed plastic TBoxes sitting at Obabika Lake waiting for placement.
Training?
Dig hole as deep as you can ...well away from the water... and put it over top of it
Training is now completed |
tsm
Member
Post Number: 78
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 6:57 pm: |
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Sounds easy enough Kim....hopefully the MNR will look at it this way too! I would imagine though that in the "park" area, the privies will have to meet strict govt' regulations!
I guess you can leave the canoe at home now Chris(T)....just walk on that water...easier on the portages! |
ed
Moderator
Post Number: 374
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 8:43 pm: |
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Roel Teunissen who works with Salo was taking notes during the meeting in Toronto.
I think the "biffies" that Chris (did I spell that right your Lordship)is talking about, may be ones that were/are owned by the Lady Evelyn Cottagers Association and are apparently stashed somewhere near Mattawapikat Dam.
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tsm
Member
Post Number: 79
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 8:46 pm: |
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Thanks Ed. Roel was the one that took notes in Ottawa too. |
ghost_brigade
Member
Post Number: 38
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 9:18 am: |
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To add to the minutes.
Question:
How many wardens are there?
Two - J. Salo.
When are they employed?
May through Sept - J. Salo.
How are backroads patrolled to prevent unauthorized access, such as on the Red Squirrel logging Road.
Red Squirrel is not in park areas. J. Salo
Yes, but they can use this road to access into the parks and CR's.
Shrug (of understanding?)- J. Salo
Have you thought about using volunteer rangers?
There is a cost to provide extensive training, equipment requirements, accomadations and safety issues, not at this time. - J. Salo
Roel Teunissen is a good addition to the planing team.
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tsm
Member
Post Number: 80
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 10:04 am: |
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ghost_brigade
Thanks for the info.
In addition to their everyday duties, these 2 wardens are also installing thunder boxes on camp sites. As you can well imagine, it will take some time to install thunder boxes on all sites within the park boundries.
There are:
over 150 sites in Lady Evelyn WP
12 in Makobe-Grays WP
95 (wow) in Obabika River WP
16 in Solace WP
36 in Sturgeon River WP
John mentioned on 2 occassions in Ottawa that the busy areas around Diamond Lake, etc. would receive top priority. I believe he said that most sites on Diamond have already been done.
I've contacted Chris regarding trying to set up some sort of volunteer program with the MNR to help out in this regard, will keep you posted.
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hillbilly
Member
Post Number: 219
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 10:33 am: |
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In TO the lady that was sitting beside Roel Teunissen was also taking notes. I think she was from a wilderness canoe association, Ed you know the Lady. You may want to get in contact with her for her notes.
Bill |
ed
Moderator
Post Number: 375
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 11:12 am: |
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I don't know who she was Hillbilly. If she was a WCA member then Erhard may know her.
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hillbilly
Member
Post Number: 220
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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Yes I think that is who she was. She was sitting beside me and Roel Teunissen was sitting beside her.
Bill |
ed
Moderator
Post Number: 376
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 1:03 pm: |
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tsm:
Thanks for doing the math.I wonder how many years it will take to get TB's on all sites if we don't help them out?
Definitely something that we should be pushing.
And I agree Kim , the training is minimal but, I have seen a number of TB's installed way too close to water. The one on Blueberry Island on Obabika is within 15 feet of the high water level and it's contents were sitting way up over the top of the hole.It has been there for several years and was probably installed by some well meaning group, other than MNR. This box is still in good shape, but just moving it to a new location on the Island will cause some problems for the mover(s), if you know what I mean.
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hillbilly
Member
Post Number: 221
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 3:50 pm: |
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The problem with Blueberry Island is that it is only about 30 meters wide and to try and set a TB back 30 meters from the water as recommended is impossible. Yes it does have to be moved but the problem is where the island is mostly rock and digging a deep enough hole would be impossible.
Bill |
tsm
Member
Post Number: 81
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 3:51 pm: |
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I'm NOT volunteering for that one! |
tsm
Member
Post Number: 82
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 3:59 pm: |
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Ed
It took me all night to count the little triangles on my Temagami routes planning map! 
Actually, I got the numbers form the TIP booklet I picked up at the meeting on Wednesday. I was surprised to see how many campsites there is in Obabika River Waterway Park! |
ed
Moderator
Post Number: 377
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 4:30 pm: |
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tsm:
The sites are also on the Temagami Planning Map.
I think as canoeists we should just concentrate on one area /year and see if we could organize ourselves to get the job done.
For example, year 1 do Lady Evelyn River, up the staircase and down the staircase. Then Willow Island and Sucker Gut Lakes etc. It is unlikely that we could do the whole area in one year.
Is there anyone willing to organize this type of operation out there and take it on as a project? |
ghost_brigade
Member
Post Number: 39
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 4:40 pm: |
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I think a volunteer program is one of the directions that Ontario Parks should be looking at. It has been run with success in other parks. I can speak from personal experience having spent a four week stint in Killarney in 1994. At that time there were three wardens employed. During my stay I did a weekend tour with a warden checking campsites, permits and doing PR work. The second trip was a 10 day maintenance trip and the third trip was for five days based out of a back country cabin. Numerous day trips out from the staff quarters to do portage and campsite work. I returned for a weekend trip that fall to help measure trails. There was one warden per trip. It was an excellent experience.
Accomadation and meals were provided while in camp. Rooms were in the parks staff house and meals were out of the rangers camp. You were responsible for trip food, with the MNR alloting a meal expense of $9/day? One issue that may be of concern is that of union work being done by non union members.
The other direction is the use of Junior Rangers. I believe that JR camps in the area have done work in Temagami in the past. I know that killarney's JR's spent some time there. A JR camp in Temagami would be nice to see.
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tsm
Member
Post Number: 83
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:28 pm: |
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Ed
I have a feeling the area near Maple Mountain will probaby be on Johns list of areas to do next. He mentioned that the high traffic areas were his top priorities, and certainly the Maple Mountain region is high traffic. I still have nightmares of the large eastern site on Hobart. That site, and the island site on Wakimika were by far the worst sites I have seen in Temagami as far as "crap" goes.
My brother in law would probably beg to differ with me, thinking the site on Rabbit lake, at the portage to Lode Lake was by far the worst.....but that's not in a park! Watch where you step Dan! |
ed
Moderator
Post Number: 378
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 8:08 am: |
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tsm:
I am not sure when you were on Wakimika,but the Island site has had a new wooden TB on it now for at least 3 Seasons.It is one that was made by C_Mel and alscool.
I was on that site briefly, on September 19th in the morning,to check it over as I passed by and it was clean with no crap lying about. The box will need to be moved sometime, perhaps during the next Season as it is getting somwhat full. |
Temagami general