| Author |
Message |
sundown
Member
Post Number: 90
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 11:45 pm: | 
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Thanks Doug, and
Precisely... I do not believe it has to be either/or... I was doing the Devils Advocate.
There is a better way... or many of them... but what is that for you... or others?
You say it precisely: (paraphrased) you could not convince me to abolish parks... (based on what is) reality today.
Me neither.
But what of reality today, doesn't belong?
There is honestly, not one word you wrote, that I personally disagree with. Yet, I suspect, our level of comfort with the degree to which "optimum" is presently achieved, falls far short of the comfort we seek.
I do not denigrate the parks, or staff efforts.
I just feel a different framework enables a higher result.
Sundown |
doug_2
Member
Post Number: 124
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 8:38 am: |
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Show me the general framework Sundown and a time frame to implement it. Time concerns me.
Time ticks by, and every passing year there are more demands on Crown Land. Even now as we speak it is more and more difficult to even find large tracts of land for future parks and protected areas because there are so many legally binding committments to so much of Crown land. That will get worse with time so
your proposed framework for a "new way" needs to be established pretty soon before it becomes too late. That is why until such a new workable framework is accepted, I still see parks playing the major role. I would not want to see that role watered down while a new framework for this is developed. That could take decades or more and it might not happen anyway. So, if a new framework can be arranged that works better, great. Until then though? |
sundown
Member
Post Number: 91
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 9:20 am: |
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Doug
The framework is being drafted as we speak, and has been for a year... although I'm sure you appreciate the framework actually probably commenced years ago as the frustrations grew.
In terms of implementation, I would like to commence in true-initial force Spring 2008. I ought stress that my experience/expertise if you will, is more in the maps 41PNE (Elk Lake) 41PNW (Gogama) 42ASE (KL) and 421SW (Timmins), so it might be more effective for me to broker support in those environs initially, thru my strong contacts with MNR, Forestry, Mining, Tourism, and Culture and Rec, in those map/areas. Also, those maps have less "Volume Pressure" presently than does the Temagami area. Discussions have commenced with Nastawgan/Chiniguichi/FoT to the point where, preliminarily, it looks to be a win-win potentiality.
My proposal/methodology is rather unique to the
Parks or Crown Land options, and is being designed by me, based on successful international methodologies... so, yes, I view it as a very valid 3rd option... which is why feedback like yours is invaluable. If I "design-out" the users views of what is wrong with Option 1 or Option 2, then Option 3 by design is
preferable. I am gathering similar input by the
other Interest Groups referenced above, for the same reasons, with surprisingly successful result. I would like a proposal to be submitted for trial during 2007... with implementation on
trial basis in 2008. Existing FMP's, by the way,
in the maps I referenced, do not yet threaten the concept to any massive degree... and I am firm in my belief that many Interest Groups might be convinced to voluntarily assist the effort.
Again, Parks ARE playing a needed role, under present options. I agree.
And at the end of the day, all I am trying to do, is to my part. I mean, its not enough for me,you, others to just continue to co-exist with our constant frustrations and worries. And, what is even more important to me is to gather as much input as possible ON those frustrations, so
the final-form "designs-out" those potentials.
So, thank you for your feedback.
"What of Reality Today (Option 1 or 2) doesn't work?"
Sundown |
doug_2
Member
Post Number: 125
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 11:07 am: |
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Wow....you are into this far deeper than I realized |
sundown
Member
Post Number: 93
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 4:57 pm: |
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Doug
Yeah... I am... and seriously, about 30 years in, really. Seriously, and I am almost ashamed of it... well, strike the almost... I am ashamed of it... but for the last 30 yrs or so I saw better systems than we have in place, and I saw they worked... and, rather than DO anything, I just kept going deeper and deeper into the bush
and as long as I found my "serenity", I let everyone else do whatever they did too.
I sat around solitary fires in my own "Eden" and said to myself "Thank the Good Lord there's no traffic where I go"... and there still isnt.
But, yeah, conscience cannot be outpaddled. I realized all I was doing was paddling deeper, and not wiser... conributing nothing.
I'm no saviour... no crusader... no dreamer. I WILL get this done, though... and that is why the input is invaluable. I firmly believe I have an Option 3 to work Hand-in-Hand WITH Parks and Crown. I do not criticize them at all, but in "sensitive areas" I guarantee the system i will propose will be pretty difficult for any vested Interest Group to not endorse.
I apologize to all... my area of bush is the areas/maps referenced above... I have never had opportunity to paddle "much" of the "Temagami" area. I will this summer. My goal is to implement on trial basis in the 4 maps above, first. I will do all I can to promote the same opportunity for Temagami and Chiniguchi... I'm only starting with "my" area because I know it,
I know the bush, I know the rivers, i know the 7 or 8 different interst groups there, and I truely believe I can gain the full co-operative "buy-in" necessary to get approval there. There's also less "Volume" and/or "Vested Interest" due to isolation and lack-of-the publicity that Temagami receives/has received.
I'd like input/support from the Temagami-aware, because you DO get the volume and pressures that my area cannot fathom, comprehend, or address.
The input is absolutely critical to this effort.
And, one more thing... I'll put every ounce I have into promoting success... so, we can slowly but surely expand the concept across the map...
Sundown
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lillydipper
Member
Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 2:59 pm: |
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All
Since the last time I was thru LE, the Dunes have been closed... can anyone tell me if there is a Campsite in close proximity. Roula wants to photograph Evening/First Light, so we were hoping to camp near by... are there any sites
handy now?
Sundown |
brian
Moderator
Post Number: 693
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 9:44 am: |
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If you have a copy of Hap Wilson's book or the Temagami Canoe Routes Planning Map there are a number shown. |
sundown
Member
Post Number: 100
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 9:56 am: |
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Thanks Brian
I have an old (Ancient-tattered copy of the Planning Map, and cannot find a date on it to know if its "pre-dunes-closing" or not. It shows a Campsite on North apex of the dunes triangle, two on the east apex, one on the west apex. I also see one
south east about a km.
Are these still open, or might you know?
Preference is near as possible to the Dunes.
Thanksalot
Sundown |
brian
Moderator
Post Number: 697
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 9:40 am: |
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All of them.
http://www.ottertooth.com/Temagami/News/newsbriefs -019.htm
There is a ton of info on the main pages and I highly recommend taking advantage of the search feature at the top of the home page (the one on this page only searches the forums). That's how I found the above link.
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sundown
Member
Post Number: 104
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 10:32 am: |
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Thanks Brian
That reference (found May 28) was exactly what led me to post the inquiry.
So, all of them remain closed, I gather?
Sundown |
beeshou
Member
Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 11:50 pm: |
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Hey???!!
TFN can camp any where any time...
See Ya!!!!
I will be exercing that right this summer....
Go ask my Chief if you have any questions..
Beeshou |
ed
Moderator
Post Number: 547
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 8:44 am: |
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Beeshou:
The Dune sites on Lady Evelyn Lake were closed due to environmental degradation as a result of too many people wanting to camp on them.
As a TFN member you have the right to camp anywhere anytime, but I would hope that as a Native steward of the land you would take a minute to consider the reasons the Dune sites have been closed.
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sundown
Member
Post Number: 342
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 9:06 am: |
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Well Said, Ed.
Beeshou... if you would care to post the contact info for the Chief of your Community, so folks can direct their "questions", I am sure that many would benefit from your offer... and, follow your suggestion.
I personally would be curious to see if your Chief feels differently than the other Chiefs in Northern Ontario. I know Chief Batise of the Wabun Council has a completely different view than the view you suggest.
Regards
Sundown |
skippy
Member
Post Number: 20
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 11:00 pm: |
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Well i will go ahead and post the website for those who want to know. www.temagamifirstnation.ca
cut and paste i guess.. no hyperlink auto-pop!!
I looked at the registered members but there was no Beeshou listed. Thats something in-it!
I am a member of TFN and not that i camp alot but if a site was shut down due to "environmental degradation" I would probably steer clear. I am not a huge fisherman either but the odd net in the fall and spring does me just fine. So i am not claiming to be a "Native Steward" by any means..
CHEERS
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ed
Moderator
Post Number: 552
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 12:51 pm: |
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Skippy:
Your Treaty Rights allow you to fish using a net.
I understand that some sport fishermen complained about that in the Temagami area a few years ago, so a survey was carried out to see if Natives exercising their rights to net fish did any damage to the local sport fishery.
I have not seen the report, but I was told that netted fish comprised only 1% of the total take from Lake Temagami.So your Native practice of taking fish by net in only the Spring and the Fall is not damaging the fishery.
That is how I understand what I was told....
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