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Ottertooth Forums * Temagami canoe routes & backcountry travel * Archive through August 10, 2009 * Blueberry lake LUP < Previous Next >

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bvr
Member

Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

The LUP on blueberry lake is for sale. You can contact Remax Temagami if interested.
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irishfield
Member

Post Number: 179
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 4:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Oh Barry......
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brian
Moderator

Post Number: 997
Registered: 02-2004


Posted on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

This is a good opportunity for a conservation-oriented purchase.
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alscool
Moderator

Post Number: 171
Registered: 02-2004


Posted on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

care to expand on that Brian.

when you purchase a LUP what is it you get exactly?
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canoedog
Member

Post Number: 15
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/CrownLand/2Co lumnSubPage/STEL02_176761.html

May/may not be a LUP - a call to realtor should define what it actually is - holders of recreational LUP's have been allowed to buy them in the past, so this may be a private parcel now which makes sense if it's for sale

"Rights granted by a Land Use Permit are not transferable and there is no right of renewal" - from the website link above

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micmac
Member

Post Number: 49
Registered: 12-2005


Posted on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 6:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I put in a call to Temagami Remax - no answer
I sent an email to the address on the website - no reply...

waiting... wishing...
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irishfield
Member

Post Number: 180
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 9:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Barry can only type so fast with one finger micmac! lol I'm sure he'll give you a call if you left him a number. I talked to him late this afternoon as matter of fact.
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sundown
Member

Post Number: 380
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Interested... more details?

Sundown
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brian
Moderator

Post Number: 999
Registered: 02-2004


Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

I don't know much. LUPs are similar to a lease. Dirt cheap annual fee. The reality is that the government treats them more like a permanent lease as I have never heard of one where government refused to renew, even in a park.

As for not being transferable? One of the LUPs on Solace Lake changed hands a number of years ago, so two now have the same owner.
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micmac
Member

Post Number: 50
Registered: 12-2005


Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

I have.
I have personal knowledge of MNR refusing to renew an LUP when Killarney PP was expanded in the late 80s.
They sent the LUP holder a notice that the permit would not be renewed for the following season.
The LUP holder was given notice to remove all belongings, and then the buildings were burnt to the ground.
This happened on Harry Lake, just South of Lake Penage.

Mike
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bvr
Member

Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 9:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

LUPs are bought and sold on a regular basis, no big deal. The MNR will also consider selling a lup on a non-trout lake, some have sold on nearby lakes in recent years.
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micmac
Member

Post Number: 51
Registered: 12-2005


Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Some useless information that I thought I'd share:

There are two LUPs on Solace Lk. One was owned by the famous bush pilot Rusty Blakey, the other by Sudbury businessman Risto Laamanen. When Rusty died, Risto bought his camp to prevent anyone else from buying it. He wanted to keep Solace his own "private" lake.

During the 1990s, Risto was given notice that both his LUPs would not be renewed - he was given a deadline (I don't recall the exact date) but this date came and went, but both camps are still there.

I think the only rule regarding LUPs, is that there are no rules... it seems like policies change, exceptions are made, and special consideration is given depending on who you know.


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bvr
Member

Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

The LUPs that are located in waterway parks (Solace, Diamond etc.) were givin a one time renewal. This means that the person who owns the LUP cannot sell or hand down the permit and when he dies the LUP is to be removed.
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brian
Moderator

Post Number: 1001
Registered: 02-2004


Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Until now history has shown that Micmac is right. LUPs, as with almost anything the gov't touches, are like pine pollen, blowing whichever way the political wind blows. We shall see.
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micmac
Member

Post Number: 52
Registered: 12-2005


Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 1:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Well, I've been on the phone all afternoon with MNR offices in North Bay, discussing the issue of purchasing an LUP.
A few notes he shared with me:
1. An LUP is the LOWEST form of land tenure.
2. The LUP can only be transferred with permission from the MNR office.
3. The LUP can be revoked at any time at the discretion of the MNR
-this means, buy the cottage, spend $$$ renovating it, and if the MNR so decides, they can refuse to renew your permit AT ANY TIME and remove your cottage (ie: burn it down)
-this can happen for a variety of reasons such as Land Claim issues, Provincial Park issues, or any change in land use designation.

...not sure what to make of this...
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kim
Member

Post Number: 226
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 3:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Its cheaper and safer to get a prospectors license and a chipping hammer.
Total cost - $35.99?
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john_v
Member

Post Number: 73
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 4:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I met two trappers with a LUP and a cabin in the James Bay frontier. I was told that as long as they register a fur a year (and I mean a single fur) and maintain the line they can keep their remote cabin. Sounds like another loop hole to having a legal remote cabin.
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preacher
Member

Post Number: 30
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 5:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

When you say the LUP can be revoked at any time, does that mean immediately or at the end of the current term?

I don't have a problem with LUPs. There are no surprises. Anyone who enters into one without knowing the facts simply hasn't taken the time to educate themselves. I'm low on sympathy for people who don't take the time to learn what they're spending their money on. Not saying it doesn't suck. I sucks a whole lot less if you use some of the many ways we have for learning.

They don't appear to the sort of thing you would use if you wanted to have a cottage. Houses are money pits, I use the term 'lifestyle decision' when I'm referring to the house I own. Only a fool builds a house on land they don't own.

As a shack for your own personal camping grounds it does sound rather attractive. Do property rights apply? If MicMac camps on my LUP can I have him charged with trespassing?
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brian
Moderator

Post Number: 1002
Registered: 02-2004


Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 6:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

There are LUPs all over the province. Many are owned by lodges and fly-in operators. There are a number on Lady Evelyn Lake and two on Diamond. Some nice ones with multiple buildings on Solace and Bluesucker lakes in Solace Park. People do invest in them. But the fact is, it is not a common complaint that they don't get renewed, park or not. There must be a dozen in Temagami parks and they've been there for decades. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it would have to be very political.
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curly
Member

Post Number: 154
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 6:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

From the Temagami Parks Plan (2007):

"Private Recreation Camp Land Use Permits (LUPs)
There are 19 existing private recreation camp LUPs within four of the five the parks. Existing
private recreational camp LUPs will be allowed to continue for the life of the current LUP
holders. No new LUPs will be issued for private recreation camps.
Activities originating from LUPs are subject to provincial park regulations and policies."

Note that Blueberry Lake is not in a park, it is Crown land.
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bvr
Member

Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 2:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Someone will buy this LUP and have a very nice cottage possibly with pontoon boats and sea-doos, IMAGINE THAT.
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doc
Member

Post Number: 17
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 2:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I talked to Barry with Remax:

Listing price is 69k with all the caveats outlined above including a cabin in poor repair.

Time for a Friends of Temagami fundraiser!
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irishfield
Member

Post Number: 181
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 5:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

"Someone will buy this LUP and have a very nice cottage possibly with pontoon boats and sea-doos, IMAGINE THAT"



Like all the meddling that's going on, behind the scenes, with the property I bought... with none of the meddlers even bothering to contact me to see what my plans are in the first place. It was for sale.. they could have bought it if they were so concerned. Good to see that maybe some here might actually buy this if they're seriously concerned about the fate of this LUP property.. and good of you bvr to drive the attention/price up! lol
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watersong
Member

Post Number: 51
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 9:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Discussed here before...

http://www.ottertooth.com/discus/messages/25/8970. html
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micmac
Member

Post Number: 53
Registered: 12-2005


Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Remember,
Blueberry Lake is a high recreation value lake - popular for it's Old Growth trails and canoe routes - this makes it a prime candidate for becoming a new Conservation Reserve, and MNR has clearly stated, that:
"ANY change in land use designation may result in removal/revocation of the LUP"

With this in mind, $69 000 for what may only last a few more years seems a little steep...

MicMac
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rallupae
Member

Post Number: 63
Registered: 08-2007


Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 8:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hello, is there an MLS listing? I went on the Remax Temagami site at http://www.youronlineagents.com/barrygraham/ (maybe the wrong site?) and could not find this property.

It would be an interesting purchase, even with LUP "conditions" (if they really exist) attached. Simply looking to ensure a protected piece of the north.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and best wishes in the New Year to all!

Paul
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irishfield
Member

Post Number: 185
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 12:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

No it's not "listed"... call Barry directly.

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