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Ottertooth Forums * Temagami canoe routes & backcountry travel * Archive through November 2, 2009 * Quest for Florence < Previous Next >

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femmes_fortes
Member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Wednesday, August 5, 2009 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I've been reading and re-reading Hap's maps trying to find a way to get to the south end of Florence in less than 7 days. Presently, I am considering leaving from Goulard road and up Nasmith and Ames creek. Is this possible?
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canoedog
Member

Post Number: 18
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 5, 2009 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

here's a trip log on a trip very similar to what you are proposing
http://www.myccr.com/SectionForums/viewtopic.php?f =108&t=33701

(Message edited by canoedog on August 5, 2009)
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 637
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2009 - 8:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Femmes Forte.
Do you have a 4 wheel drive truck?
If so, it may be possible.If not, do not attempt it.
Goulard road to Iron lake,then west across the Obabika River, then north to Twinkle.
Paddle and portage from Twinkle to Pinetorch and then west into the next lake where Ames Creek comes south from Florence.
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doublebend
Member

Post Number: 23
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2009 - 11:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi Ed,

I'm very intrigued by your description of a route through Twinkle Lake, as I did some work on that route last year. You seem to be describing driving to Twinkle Lake? If so, does that road have any major water crossings or is it intact? I'd also be interested in knowing if it might be hard a vehicle's paint or is brushed back? Is it shown on any maps?

Thanx,
DoubleBend
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otter_mel
Member

Post Number: 119
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2009 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

But then again, you could always fly in from Tenmmagami and spend more time exploring and then paddling out in fewer than 7 days.
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chris
Member

Post Number: 95
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2009 - 1:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

DoubleBend,

We spoke about this route some time ago and I've been meaning to drop you a line on that...

The route from Twinkle to the Torch is there:
We went up from Twinkle and met Ed coming down from Pinetorch.

We found the Nastawgan from the un-named lake down to the 1st lake up from Twinkle - further to the east, like you thought. We retraced the route and its a tough portage: The upstream end is easy to find, the downstream end is bit more obscure.

Ed's got some really good sketches and I've got some good notes and coordinates as well. Not sure if he wants to post them here yet... we are still hoping to put together a piece for the site on all this.

Cheers!

Chris

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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 638
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2009 - 2:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Doublebend:
I wouldn't try do this route without a 4x4.
The road from Iron Lake across to where you pick up the road coming from Lower Goose has a section that is brushy and you have to ford a small creek.You will scratch your vehicle going through here. It is not a long section, maybe 2-300 feet.There are some other places as well, but I think this is the worst of them.
The bridge across the Obabika River is intact.
Once over there you can drive to Twinkle.
If you do the canoe route from Twinkle to Pinetorch Lake ... it is pretty hard assed tripping..... I could not recommend it to anyone as a recreational route.

Of course you can always fly into Florence,as Otter_Mel is suggesting, but that is getting expensive for many of us.
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femmes_fortes
Member

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2009 - 8:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Thanks for all the great imput. I will pull out my map once again to examine the described routes. I have a Honda CRv not quite 4X4... Flying runs me 525$...it's a pricey vacation...

I might have to let this one lie until I can add a few more days to my canoe trip.

FF
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tsm
Member

Post Number: 142
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2009 - 9:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

FF
Flying into Florence is indeed expensive, especially now that Darrin is only running a Beaver.
We flew in back in '99 in the "red and white" 185. As beautiful as Florence Lake is on the surface, it truly needs to be seen from the air. The colour of the water is incredible, truly the most beautiful lake in Temagami, IMO!
My only regret of that trip is that we only spent a few hours on the lake, then paddled north and down the river. I shall return!
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chris
Member

Post Number: 96
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2009 - 10:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Heh heh... good thing your a hard -***, eh ed?

Here is a pic I found of an old camp at the Twinkle narrows.
As you can see, the bench and fire pit haven't been used in a while:

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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 639
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Friday, August 7, 2009 - 8:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

I don't think I am any more hard ***** than some other trippers I know, but it is a fact that some routes turn out to be more difficult than others.

I wouldn't want to direct someone to Pinetorch via Twinkle without some qualification, especially since they came onto this Forum to ask about an alternate route.

If someone's expectation of a Temagami trip is implanted by having canoed around Diamond, Wakimika and Obabika, that is a much different experience than canoeing through Pinetorch CR in either direction....and canoeing through there will be much different than going upstream on Pinetorch Creek from Twinkle Lake where the portages are seldom used, hard to find and the water levels in the connecting lakes are near Summer lows, in spite of the rain we have had.

Nice picture of the site on Twinkle.
I wonder who brought in that bench, made from a piece of lumber? Probably not a canoeist.


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alscool
Moderator

Post Number: 194
Registered: 02-2004


Posted on Friday, August 7, 2009 - 8:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

We need more hard a$$ed trippers to head up there and thrash back the verge, both on the access and on the re-opened nastawgan portages.

Twinkle Lake is 40 odd km up from Manitou Lodge. The road bed varies from flat and sandy to steep soft with boulders. The last couple of km to the landing above Twinkle, the forest regeneration is taking back the road. Definatley 4 by 4 country, a Ford would be your best bet.
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chris
Member

Post Number: 97
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Friday, August 7, 2009 - 11:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I would have to think that bench and the use of this site would probably date back to roading and logging in the area - perhaps 30 years?

I have been considering the routes in this area for some time now and the following image is cropped from what the NN used during its TIP presentation. I won’t go into the whole spiel, but this region sets the stage for conflicts associated with differing land use zones, including parks, and the threads of traversing canoe routes. This area delineates the roadless areas within Special Management Area 49 and Integrated Management Area 47. It will be from this general area where the roads will push NW into SMA 49 and the Solace Wildlands for timber extraction, (assuming the Sturgeon River Crossing does not go ahead). Perhaps not in this FMP, but eventually unless there are big changes with the Land Use direction.

The roads in this area are, for the most part, used by hunters, fishermen and ATVers. There is a Moose Camp on the first lake up from Twinkle that is accessed by ATV - this Camp actually has a special Area of Concern in the upcoming Sudbury FMP. We met the Gents that own this camp down at the Manitou Lodge on the 805 - they helped us fix our truck and we booked a cabin for the night. I highly recommend this option as the facilities are well kept and the owner and his friends were very friendly, helpful and accommodating.

Anyway, although this map might not adequately show this fact, (the line work is a bit off) the road in question is within IMA 47 and public motorized usage is not restricted. It probably sees rather irregular recreational traffic, but it is very seldom, if ever, used by canoeists. This might change one day if the road is improved for logging purposes. While the issue of roads and access might pose something of a paradox for some who value wilderness canoeing, I think the onus is on us to get on The Land and routes by whatever legal means are available to us. In that we might start exerting a stronger presence in some of these lesser used areas and so enhance the status of these routes and areas within various planning processes. This might also serve to spread out traffic and help take pressure off of other areas. Our increased usage of the area would also improve our position to strive for effective access controls to be installed at the SMA boundary, if and when the roads push north.



I would also agree with Ed in that some of the routes in this area are not presently well-suited for general canoe tripping.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 641
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Saturday, August 8, 2009 - 7:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

.....and I might add if canoeists express interest in travelling in this area....it will get some of us interested in making it more user friendly.
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femmes_fortes
Member

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Sunday, August 9, 2009 - 10:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi Ed,

We have decided to try Hap's Route 19. Florence will have to wait for a fly-in trip next year.

1- Do you know if the water levels are high enough to do this trip?

2- Can the loop be done in either direction?

Thanks!
FF
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 642
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Sunday, August 9, 2009 - 11:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Not sure I can help you, since I have not travelled in the area this Summer.

What part(s)of route 19 are you planning to do? If you are planning to do the lower loop portion from Smoothwater through Whitemud, LERiver South Branch to Florence River and onto the North branch and then north to Gamble and across to Smoothwater... you may be disappointed. In the Summer, the South branch of LERiver is usually shallow and you end up dragging/portaging your canoe downstream.
I recall a post here during the past month saying the the North Branch was also shallow this year.

http://www.ottertooth.com/discus/messages/3/18153. html?1249411507

But the post was not answered, so I don't know if that comment was factual.

You might try calling Ontario Parks at Finalyson and try speaking to the Superintendant, Kevin Pinkerton or to Kelly the Warden. They have people travelling out in the Park doing maintenance work who might be able to advise you about the water levels.
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femmes_fortes
Member

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 6:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Thanks Ed. We will stop in at Finlayson on the way to Elk lake.
FF
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ashbylaker
Member

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 1:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi FF, Ottertooth,

I haven't had time to thoroughly read all replies, so apologies if this has been stated. I did read that you weren't making it this year, but FYI...

To Florence in 6 days; this was the first 6/19 from my trip last year in August.

Started eastern Wanapitei, up through Matamagasi, Wolf etc to the Sturgeon via Stouffer. Climbed the Sturgeon two days, crossed Solace PP, and were waking up on the Lady E river north of Florence on the morning of Day 7.

Definitely possible, and a great trip up through the Chiniguichi System.

Cheers
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sundown
Member

Post Number: 461
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 3:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Ashbylaker

You are to be commended... and, to think you made it Fordless, too...

Things Worthwhile Are Very Seldom Easy...

But, Like You, I've More Respect For People Willing to Shrug Off "Easy".

Regards

Sundown
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fireman
Member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Saturday, August 22, 2009 - 10:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

This is fascinating reading. We are departing for Florence from Maskinonge in three weeks, across at Pilgrim Creek, Yorston, BlueSucker and into Florence. Then out via Ames Creek, over to Naismith and down to the Obabika.
We have done all of this area with the exception of the area of Naismith Creek, south of Dorothy Lake, through Lahay Lake and onto the Obabika.
Do any of you folks have any information as to what to expect from that section of Naismith Creek.
Having sensed the tone of a lot of postings, I very much respect the idea of the more rugged areas needing to be used and a presence made by paddlers.
The trip from Wakimika to Florence via Pinetorch and MudChannel was done by two of us in three days of travel from the island campsite on Wakimika. Having read other trip journals, I think that was a hard push. I know it was some of the most grueling portaging I have ever done in Temagami. The 1,600 yard uphill from the north end of Naismith left the two of us with muscle spasms and the conviction that it was probably the toughest portage in the park (suggested to us by a gentleman at Temagami Outfitters on the train ride up to Temagami).
The stretch in to MudChannel was extremely problematic and I think I read here someone saying there is a need for a portage trail off to the side.
What is the policy concerning cutting or clearing trails? Or marking them? I have always appreciated that little bit of orange tape tied to a tree, fading in the sunlight. Then again, I hear of fanatics taking down the P markings in parts of the park to discourage canoeists.
Anyway, fascinating discussions. A lot more people getting in to these spots than I would have imagined.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 648
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 9:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Fireman:
OK... so you are on Nasmith Creek heading downstream towards Dorthy. You may have to drag or portage a bit past the road crossing if the water levels are low. As you get closer to Dorthy the water gets deeper and you can usually paddle from there on running a few swifts along the way.I suggest that you pass by here fairly early in the morning. If it is later in the day you might want to camp on Dorthy or camp on the road further upstream. A bit after passing Dorthy the Creek starts to meander around considerably and is a bit boring but there are several log jams along the way that will keep you occupied as you will need to carry around them. These aren't too bad but take some time to negotiate. Eventually you come to a small Falls that has a portage on RR. Pretty spot, followed by a liftover that you may be able to let your canoe down if there is enough water.
Next is a series of cascades, some of which you may be able to run, but there is a lengthy portage on RL.
If you decide to run some drops you can pick up the portage easily along the way as it travels close to the river bank.
Following this is another liftover/carry before you are free to complete the journey to Lahay.
There is a camping opportunity in the cascades area at the start of the portage. There is also an oppportunity to camp on a rock outcropping on RR in the cascades near the upper end.It took me most of the day to go solo from Hortense to Lahay late last September.
There are 2 sites on Lahay. I used the East site which has an old trappers cabin behind it. A sorry looking mess.The portage into the next lake starts along side the cabin if you choose to go that way.
Or you may decide to go south on Lahay and take Nasmith Creek out to Obabika R.
I went out via the next 2 lakes and that route is described on page 89 of Wilson's guide book as the Lahay Link.If you chose this route, the first 2 portages south from Lahay were in good shape, but the last portage onto Obabika River was not useable as of last September.Instead, paddle south on this lake past the start of the portage on the east side to where you will find a beaver dam and a pond below it. There are a couple of them and you can lift over easily. Eventually the river narrows into a small creek that is too shallow to paddle on. Portage along the banks an either side as necessary until you come to an old log bridge that blocks your way. Portage on RL to a trail that connects to the old portage ( maybe 5-10m) turn right and take that out to the Obabika River, which is within sight at that time.
There are few campsites on the Obabika. There is one about 2 hours downstream from here on an old lumber camp, where you will have to portage around a drop.
If you go the Nasmith route from Lahay down to the Obabika River you will by-pass this c/s and have to travel to the Falls portage, just before the Sturgeon River, before you find another campsite. The exit above the Falls should be marked with tape on RL. Don't let the river meanders lull you into an afternoon snooze, and miss the take-out. There is a small cabin like structure on the RL bank at the take-out, but it is difficult to see. You can camp here if necessary.Or you can complete the portage out to the Sturgeon and camp on the sand banks by the Sturgeon river if necessary.

As you pass by the Wawaigama River going downstream, there is a large tree blockage on the Obabika. Portage on RR (there is also a port on RL), and following that you go under the logging bridge.
I assume that you are going back into Maskinonge Lake via Kelly's Crossover.
If you haven't found it already the map for this route is here: http://ottertooth.com/Temagami/Maps/kellys-routes. htm

Have a great trip.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 650
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Some Nasmith Pictures:



#1 Nasmith Creek at Dorthy Lake looking upstream in September.
#2.Logjam on Nasmith Creek ... not as bad as it looks.
#3.End of Portage following first small rapid before Cascade area on Nasmith Creek.
#4. Pool between Cascades on Nasmith.
#5. Abandoned Trappers Cabin on Lahay Lake.
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fireman
Member

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 10:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Ed, that is exactly the information I need,thanks very much. We are staying on Naismith of Lahay Lake.
I remember Naismith as being low water,hopefully
there is more water this year.
This is rugged territory and patience is the name of the game. After all, it beats work.
Would you happen to know where I can get the park permits coming up through Hagar from #69??
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 651
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 11:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

There are no permit vendors in Hagar or near that area.
Call Finlayson PP and buy the permits with your credit card and have them mail them to your home.
705-569-3205.
No permit needed for your trip down Nasmith, which is in the Pinetorch CR.

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