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Archive through August 26, 2009sundown25 08-26-09  8:20 am
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fireman
Member

Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 8:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

I'll put my faith in global warming and bring extra longjohns.
Boy, I thought I was into canoeing, you guys take it to a whole different level. How did they do it before the internet?
I have heard the weather can change up there in a heartbeat and it is the rooftop of the province, but I've had some pretty cold weather blow in off of Georgian Bay, too. October 8th, as an exit date I think is reasonable, borderline but reasonable.
We are focusing here on the problems, the upside is it is late Autumn in Temagami. I cannot think of a more beautiful time of year. Good fishing, the water is still warm enough to swim (rules aside) nice cool nights for sleeping, no bugs, relatively dry portage trails. each year is different, but I always do Temagami end of September and have never regretted it.
I'll be doing the Maskenonge-Florence-Obabika-Sturgeon loop starting at Roly Jonas' Lodge on September 12. Eight guys, a lot of Scotch to share, so if any of you are out paddling, keep and eye and come visit. You seem like great guys to meet out there. Some of you look a little familiar already,based on your avatars.
thanks for the advice, I will use it well.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 661
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Sundown:
There is an old guy who lives on Obabika and has for some time. He listens exclusively to the Sudbury weather report.He does so because he finds this report to be mostly accurate for the weather in his area.Centre Falls is approximately 18km to his north. Earlton is approximately 60km north east of Centre Falls.
You also need to know that the winds on Obabika are predominately from the SW throughout the Summer, the same as Sudbury wind direction, and they switch more to the south in the fall and then to the north in the winter.The winds on Lady Evelyn Lake follow a similar pattern. In October the prevailing winds in this area are from the South switching to the north as we enter the dead of winter.That doesn't mean that the wind does not come out of the north at times on these lakes, because it does.I have seen it happen in early May a number of times.

I have traveled along the Montreal River from Temagami area to Elk Lake but only on 2 ocassions, so I would not presume to debate what you claim here.

Temagami of course receives its weather reports from the Temiscaming QC station, which is again different from Earlton and Sudbury.Unfortunately the statistical data provided from this station does not give us the prevailing wind directions.

This will be my last post on this item.

Let me close with the following:
Many years ago I worked with an old guy who had a photographic memory.He was quite a smart person.He had 5 children all of them professionals. One day he received a post card from one of his sons.

It had these words printed on the front of it:

"Once I thought I was wrong......
but I was mistaken"

Have a nice day Larry.\clip art{happy}


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otter_mel
Member

Post Number: 123
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I have travelled in late September several times and we always had beautiful warm weather and the only time there was any ice was one morning only, on Lady Evelyn River after the Florence River confluence, when we camped near the river and had ice form at the bottom corners of the tent fly.
So I would not worry too much about that.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 662
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 7:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Fireman wrote:
"I'll be doing the Maskenonge-Florence-Obabika-Sturgeon loop starting at Roly Jonas' Lodge on September 12."

I expect to be in the area on Mattagamasi heading north on September 8th, but going into McConnell and Laura etc.So we will not likely meet.

I presume you are crossing over to the Sturgeon at Parsons Lake?
Perhaps when you get back you could tell us about the condition of the Crossover portages from the Sturgeon to Yorston via Pilgrim Creek.
Ontario Parks cleared that area out last year because it was no longer user friendly, but I don't know if any of us here have travelled on it since then, to assess its condition.

I was on Yorston this Spring and went into Seagram and up to Mudchannel. All the ports through to Mudchannel are clear. Not many decent campsites up that way except for the one at Talking Falls which is quite nice.
Have a good trip.

Quite an interesting water falls going north out of Seagram Lake on the Yorston River .


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sundown
Member

Post Number: 478
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 8:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Ed... Your Uncle and I Share a Similar Sense of Humour... Clearly Some Rubbed Off on His Nephew Too !

Happy Day, Ed

Sundown
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fireman
Member

Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 5:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I will definitely update you guys on the crossover. The last time I did it was four years ago and it was pretty bad. Low water made it difficult to get the boats moving at the put ins. I also sliced my foot in that stretch so I suffered badly through there.
We are camping on McConnell Bay on our second night, September 13th. So ifyou are still in the area, we are a team of eight, hard to miss.
Good to hear MudChannel is clear, it was low the last two times I was through.
While I have your attention, which campsite would you reccommend on the southern end of Florence Lake. We don't use tents so we can be rather spread out. but good swimming is important.
OK, have a good day, guys.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 664
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 9:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Fireman:
Use the campsite on the long narrow curved point on the west side, in the south end of Florence.Good swimming there off the rocks and lots of room to camp.I don't have a map handy, but you will need to paddle up Florence for a bit, passing a couple of other sites in the channel there before you will be able to see this site.When you leave that site to go into Ames Creek you will have to paddle in a SE direction.

I may have mislead you on Mudchannel. I left Talking Falls and proceeded north taking the crossover towards Ames and Pinetorch Lake.So I actually did not go up into Mudchannel. The crossover route is not pleasant and after a short while I gave up trying to bend my canoe around the tight turns and got out and carried it for the remaining distance.

OK... for the campsite: from Pilgrim Creek 41P/2
it would be approximately:Easting 330, North 310
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fireman
Member

Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

OK, that is the crossover that left me and my buddy swearing, sweating, laughing and stumbling in the rain. It is impossible to get the canoe through the water course, although in Hap's old book, it shows it as navigatable...
Is this not the crossover that was spoken of earlier...where there is a need for a portage trail to be cut??
We are not going that way this time as we are staying on MudChannel into BlueSucker and then out of Florence via Ames. But I still remember that section as being particularly curse-inspiring.
Thanks for the tip on the campsite. I usually stay on the north side on the penninsula that is one big rock. Very beautiful, but a bit of a pull if we are leaving via Ames.
What was the route into MudChannel like come from Yorston River/Seagram Lake? Any surprises?
You should know that all of the info you guys have given me here is being transcribed right on to our map sets by our official navigator/cartographer. So feel free to expand in to the minutia. The difference between looking for a portage you know for sure is there and between searching for one you have no confirmation of (atleast in the last 25 years) is a major one.
I have had trips go sideways over arguments over these types of things (that's why I wish I could carry a sidearm as team leader-dispense with the whole democratic process and go with the smart money!!!)
enjoy your trip, Ed, and the name is Jonathon.
Cheers,
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 666
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 2:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Fireman:
The route from Yorston to Seagram to the Yorston River is clear up to Mudchannel Lake by the crossover.
There is one campsite on Yorston Lake in the NW corner not far from the portage.You can reach the start of the portage by using the ATV trail that runs about 10m behind the c/s. There is a c/s on Seagram on the SW side a bit before you reach the portage. Then no more big c/s's after that until you reach Talking Falls.There may be a large one in Bull Lake, but you would have to go out of your way to reach it.The portage out of Seagram upstream on the Yorston is on RL (River Left....your RHS going upstream).The next narrows has a portage on RR.It goes up over a hill and has a steep drop off on the upstream side.That puts you in a no-name lake a bit east of Bull Lake. The portage out of that small lake is in the NE side on RR.There is a very small c/s on the south shore there... too small for your group.Moving north up a long narrow lake you come to a portage on RL that has a small c/s on it. This takes you into a small pool and another portage on RL.The next pool has a portage on RR around Talking Falls. There is a nice c/s here large enough for your group.There is one more portage upstream on RR around a small set of rapids before you enter the bottom end of Mudchannel Lake.
I left Mudchannel to do the Crossover. You can portage along the creek on the North side of the beaver meadow to the next Lake if you ever go that way again instead of trying to push your way up the Creek.Mostly impossible anyway....

If you go here you will find some recent information on Ames Creek:
http://www.myccr.com/SectionForums/viewtopic.php?f =108&t=33886&sid=c75ae69e6f7b44210d16485c103f3253
As Ghost found out the portage along Ames is there but not easy to locate. He was travelling upstream while you are going downstream so that may make a difference for your group.If you have trouble finding it it is probably because some twit has removed the flagging tape from it.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 667
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 3:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Fireman: I am not sure what you are referring to here in your previous post "Is this not the crossover that was spoken of earlier...where there is a need for a portage trail to be cut??

That must be some other crossover.??
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fireman
Member

Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 8:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

NO, I was referring to the crossover from MudChannel that you described above. The beaver meadow. We also resorted to the north side, finding a moose track, but a trail there would save a lot of headache for future paddlers.
Strangely, I do not remember Talking Falls. But the year I went through there was a drought year. I do remember portaging up bouldered areas that would have been waterfalls in high water times. It must have been pretty much dry. I was also limping along on a badly gashed foot, so I doubt I was paying much attention.
I must say, given the water levels, the prospect of those portages from BlueSucker Lake into Florence are not very appealing. I recall them being very wet when I went through and very mucky. There are some dry spots to rest on but my impression of it was as a very difficult haul.
Maybe a bit of familiarity will help, probably not. Experience seems to barely keep pace with the relentlessness of aging. It never seems to get much easier out there. But, thus there is Scotch.
Cheers
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 668
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 9:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Fireman:
I think the Moose track is the portage trail.The open Beaver Meadow is about 100m wide through here, and mostly fairly solid underfoot as I recall but with some soft spots to avoid by going around them.
Haps's supposition that you can push up the creek is somewhat misleading. A 16' canoe can not make the turns even in the Spring when the water is presumably at it's highest.But he wrote those words a long time ago.....
I looked at my 1:20,000 map for this area and I note that I have pencilled in the letters BS which must have described my thoughts as I tried to make progress up this thing. A trail would have to be cut on the North side somewhere close to the first elevation line. An awesome task.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 669
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 9:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Talking Falls in early May 2009:


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fireman
Member

Post Number: 13
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 1:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

One final question. Where are these Talking Falls?
Is it the long way around to Seagram, going east then coming back? We looked at it and could not remember seeing them. Also, one final, final question (not really, there will be lots more)
Can you or anybody else give us any current information on the state of the portages from BlueSucker into Florence, particularly the 1,600 into Florence?
I remember doing it and suffering with boggy patches. Any re-routes onto drier areas????
We are very optimistically hoping to make it from Seagram into Florence in one long day.
That way we have two days in Florence, a much needed rest before Ames Creek, PineTorch and Naismith Creek.
We travel pretty swiftly, if we know the way, that is. Although a group of eight is always a bit more awkward at the take outs and put ins..........Please advise.
Thanks, Jonathon
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 670
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 3:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Fireman:
Talking Falls is well north of Seagram somewhere around:E314,N211
Can't help you with your Florence Portage question and you are very optimistic about getting into Florence in one day from Seagram.
.....Maybe in the Spring when the days are long, but in September it doesn't get light until ~7AM and it gets dark at ~7PM

Are your companions also Firemen? That might explain your enthusiasm for trying to kill yourselves off instead of enjoying the sights and smelling the flowers along the way.
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fireman
Member

Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 7:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

three of us are Toronto Fire Fighters and yes, the route we planned is very ambitious. The problem is we think we are the same paddlers we were ten years ago. We do get on the water by 9:00 a.m. and we go until 5:30 or so, but even that is pushing it for this route.
We have declared no hot lunches, no naps and NO SCOTCH at lunch for the busier days.
We have been known to do 45-50 km days in Temagami, a bit obsessed but it has happened. We are coming down the Obabika to the Sturgeon from Lahay and camping somewhere along the crossover to Maskinonge. That is two days of travel with a ton of miles, all with the current though.
But you are right. Seagram to Blue Sucker is a push no matter how you measure it. it is just so sweet to have two nights on Florence, no packing up, nice long sleep in and eat down the food weight before we hit the nameless lakes and Naismith.
Speaking of which, I would love to hear what you guys use to calculate food amounts for a group of eight.
My problem is I am used to cooking in a firehall where eating is an Olympic Event. Close to a pound of meat per man for a dinner.
We always make too much so it is hard to know how much rice, for instance, is needed for eight paddlers for one meal. We are working on a 5 cups of rice for eight men basis at the moment.
But my gut tells me we are going to have an awful lot of food to carry for eleven days given our calculations.
There may be a major re-packing of the food packs at Roly Jonas' before we set out.
This is the problem when you have six guys planning meals, instead of one overall Food Commander with veto powers.....
Anyway, we will see, in the end it matters little if we complete the route we chose, the point is to be out there. We are minimalists, though, we only carry once on the portages as we have the whole shooting match down to seven packs for the eight of us. No tents, no frills, one small emergency stove and a small dictionary to settle disputes over the roots of words and their meanings. Quite a band of idiots out there. but very happy. Take care, Jonathon
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 672
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Fireman:
The food takes a bit of planning, but it is probably too late for you to do much about the weight for this trip.
It is best to dry as much of it as possible. I.e. dried ground beef, dried ground chicken, dried ground turkey and shredded beef are all easy to prepare in advance and then use those materials to make up your meals.
I usually make up one pot dinners from a number of ingredients such as dried veggies, precooked and dried rice, pastas etc. That helps to reduce the weight significantly.Cooking and drying the rice will not help you much if you use a fire to cook on, but if you are using a stove you can save on the fuel you have to carry if you use pre-cooked and dried veggies etc.
For example a pound (454g)of hamburger becomes 90g dried.
But that is another long discussion topic.Best to not get into it here at this time.
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brian
Moderator

Post Number: 1085
Registered: 02-2004


Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 10:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

This may make your discussion easier:
http://www.ottertooth.com/Temagami/Maps/Misabi-Ran ge.htm

The entire route between Florence and Yorston Lake via Bluesucker and the upper Yorston River is heavily traveled and the portages, but one, are all obvious. There is only one place where you might have walked over rocks, and could justify it, and that would be the first portage below Bluesucker. The trail is unnecessarily long and some people just walk the boulders if the water is low enough.

Yes, there is a lot of portaging between Bluesucker and Florence, as there is on the parallel route through Ames Creek. The former is still easier.
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fireman
Member

Post Number: 15
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

thanks, we do dehydrate everything, including the meat, although I have never cooked and then dehydrated the rice, seems a bit unnecessary, unless you are just cooking on a stove, as you say.
I was more curious about amounts per person. Dry weights and such.

Brian, we entering Florence via BlueSucker and exiting via Ames, so I guess we are in for it.
I thought Ames was a bit more straightforward than the other way, good to know.
I have never seen anyone up in that neck of the woods save one, very lost, newlywed couple, although by the end, I think they were more newly-divorced.
Good day to all
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 673
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Fireman:
That is a bit tricky to answer.It depends on the recipe, etc.
Let me try this Stroganoff recipe for 1 person.
Dried Ground Beef 40g
Egg Noodles 50g
Dried Red/Green Peppers 10g
Dried Mushrooms 5g
Dried Onions 5g
Parsley, dried 2g
Sour Cream Powder 35g
Oxo cube ~5g

Total weight ~142g

Most of the commercial meals that you can buy that are dried are about this weight/ person. I am thinking about Harvest Food Works in particular. The Freeze Dried food supplier packages may be a bit lighter than this per person, ~ 105-110g, and I can easily consume 1 of their 2 person, ~215g meals myself on a good day and maybe with a little help from my dog, who is much like a 15# garbage disposal unit on wheels.
So for 2 people about 300g should about do it.
So if my wife was going with me... both in our 60's I would reduce the per serving weight for G/B and noodles a bit pushing the weight down to about 125g. If my oldest daughter was going with me I would increase the weight/person a bit because she eats like a fireman.(but she doesn't look like one)

In this case the 142g meal would rehydrate to about 2 fulls cups.
Is that enough for you colleagues?
And if you screw up you will hear about it.
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fireman
Member

Post Number: 16
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

You must be off on the egg noodles. that would be 400 grams for eight guys. Must be more than that. the other stuff sounds about right.
That's one of those small rama noodle packages, I imagine. Never enough. We are going pretty hard and if it is in the least bit cold and rainy, it is safe to increase the food amounts by a major factor.
Never knew there was such a thing as sour cream powder, sounds very chemical...is it?
Anyway, appreciate the recipe, I might use it.
this stuff is too detailed to get into here, I guess.
I know that when we take the students out in late September for ten days, there is so much extra food I have tantrums when I check their food packs. And not from contraband, somewhere they are calculating wrong. 32 pounds of peanuts, last year, for eight of us for eight days. The squirrels were ecstatic when I gathered all the nuts from all the packs.
Anyway, we will keep at it. Keep an eye peeled for an olive barrel with non-perishables in it somewhere in the Chiniguchi system.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 675
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

A serving of egg noodles is about 85 grams.That is with nothing else added. Adding more will not effect the recipe that much. A modest sized packaged of medium sized egg noodles is 375g.
If you want more protein add more G/B, but if you do, increase the Sour Cream as well to keep the flavour..

Dried sour cream powder is usually made in a spray drier with a bit of BHT preservative in it.Not sure you can buy it in Canada. If you find it please here let me know.

Next winter would be a good time to discuss recipes....

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