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Ottertooth Forums * Temagami canoe routes & backcountry travel * Archive through July 27, 2010 * 5 day trip Recommendations? * Archive through June 2, 2010 < Previous Next >

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shmerm
Member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2010 - 6:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi all,

My husband and I are looking for a good five-days on the water. We are intermediate paddlers with a kevlar canoe. We have only paddled up at Wabakimi, so are preferential to the most remote of routes. We are wondering if fly-in paddle out would be the best way to get a remote paddling experience at Temagami. Any recommendations would be more than welcome.
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shmerm
Member

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2010 - 6:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Also, we are planning to arrive mid-week during mid-august, and are fine with long portages. Primary goal is to escape the city and be in the bush sans others. ;)
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pine_sap
Member

Post Number: 51
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 7:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

You are choosing a good time to come... by mid August the youth camps are finished greatly reducing the traffic... at that time you could do many of the traditional loops without seeing too many people if you want to save on "fly in" airfare.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 824
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 4:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

The water levels in the rivers and creeks are abnormally low this year, at present. This could change as we go through the Summer, if we get higher than normal rainfall.

If you trip in Wabakimi, then you must do some whitewater(moving water) trips?
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shmerm
Member

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 6:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I was a little worried about the water levels, which seem to be a hot topic on the discussion boards. We have not done any serious whitewater. Just rivers with enough room to avoid the odd obvious white stuff, and only what a kevlar could handle.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 825
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 7:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

You might take a look at this map here on ottertooth:
http://www.ottertooth.com/Temagami/Maps/muskego-so uth.htm#map
These are fairly remote routes that you can access by driving to Sandy Inlet on Ferguson Bay using the Red Squirrel Road.Go to:
http://www.ottertooth.com/Temagami/Maps/map_tem_at las_sandy.htm

The problem with a fly in route for a 5 night trip in Temagami is that you would have to fly out as well,in order to meet the time requirement.

So take a look at these while we think about some others. And there are some people who may respond to your post with other suggestions next week when they are around.
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shmerm
Member

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 8:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Thanks for yoru response again, Ed.

Hmm..well the time/flight is something to think about. Our preference is really to be as remote as possible, so I think we would think about a round trip flyin-out, depending on the cost. Any idea of what that would be? What about a shuttle or paddle in/fly out? Any idea if that enable us to go more deeply into remote areas?

If it is possible to save money by taking on a few extra portages, that is fine. This area in the link you sent over seems interesting. I really like the idea of using some of the old portage routes. Do you know how much logging is happening in the area this year? Or if much of the area is logged already?

I am so glad this forum is here so we can start planning and thinking about where we'll be going. I just ordered Hap's book, but am wondering if the routes in there are already overused?

Anyway, thanks, Ed, and anyone else who has ideas.

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irishfield
Member

Post Number: 245
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Lakeland's Beaver is $665/hr.... their dock to their dock... plan for about 80 miles per hour (both ways!) and it should cover drop/pick up time.
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bvr
Member

Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 8:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Email lakeland Airways at lakeland@ontera.net for a quote.
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fireman
Member

Post Number: 81
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 8:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

the only really remote area other than around Florence that I have travelled is the Montreal River north of Gowganda and over to Matachewan.
It is very beautiful, mysterious, and was totally devoid of travelles, albeit, it was September. But no one I talk to goes there with any regularity.
the portage signs were non-existent, but a savvy paddler with a topo can figure out where they should be. campsites were obvious if not plentiful. we ended up coming down to Elk Lake, the section back on the Montreal east of the highway was less than thrilling. Lots of room to explore up there.
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preacher
Member

Post Number: 122
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Flying at least one direction is your best option. Most access points are 1-2 days of motorboat lakes before you can get remote. I think those access points that aren't motorboat lakes are a lot more driving. A couple hours with the plane vs. driving would be a nicer trip imo.
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shmerm
Member

Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 5:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hmm..At the rate above, we are rethinking fly-ins, and maybe even the whole trip. I had always heard Temagami was pretty remote. So, I have one question, is Temgami as busy as Algonquin? Am wondering if it is worth going a little further north if it ends up having the same amount of people/campsite wear and cleaniliness. Anyone who has been to both, your comments would be well appreciated.
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preacher
Member

Post Number: 123
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 5:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Remote is a strange thing. There's the old Twilight Zone when the guy thinks he's all alone, but there's a town over the hill. He was remote. In his heart and his mind he was alone. How the place you are feels to you when you douse the fire is when you decide if you're remote or not.


I have done both annually for the past few years.
I have gone to Temagami via Obabika, Mowat & Sandy Inlet. Each of those are motorboat lakes with a day or two of motorboats before you get away from them. I felt the most remote in early May on a motorboat lake at an abused campsite at the foot of Frank's Falls, a very popular area. Two of us were the only ones around.
APP I've done for 20 years. Been many places N of HWY60. I felt the most remote halfway down the Nipissing R. darn near the dead center of the park.

For both it depends where and when you go. Mid August is pretty busy no matter where you go. My preference is to avoid both major areas from Victoria Day to Labour Day.

5 days isn't long enough to get significantly remote in either place, unless you do a one-way trip. That involves flights or shuttles.

I don't find anything particularly different about either place. The differences are subtle, but they're there. For example, one could tromp Temagami knowing/feeling they're walking in footsteps thousands of years old. There have been people residing and constantly travelling there for milennia. Algonquin on the other hand never really saw any regular habitation. People moved in/through, but never stayed much.

Check the resources on ottertooth. There are maps showing high-use areas and motorboat lakes.

For APP specific forum try http://www.network54.com/Forum/352882

APP does have some lakes with motorboats - only one has no hp restriction. If that's the real concern, pick your access point carefully.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 826
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 6:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Several years ago I was in Las Vegas for a trade show and having got bored with that, decided to go to Red Rock Canyon Conservation Area a bit north of the city.That day I took this hike through the desert which climbed one of the mountains in the reserve and was sitting on top admiring the view. The view was down into a valley with the city of Las Vegas below me and off just a bit to the south of where I was perched. After a while another climber came along and sat down beside me and we spoke for a bit. He was from Washington DC and told me that it had been a long time since he had a chance to get out into the wilderness.
____________

For the past several years I have been going out into the Temagami Area in late April and spend most of the month of May travelling around. I see no one, unless I hang around to the start of the fishing sesaon and find myself near some popular fishing spots.

As Preacher says, Wilderness is what you see it as.
There are far more people in Algonquin in mid August than in Temagami. But there will be people in Temagami in mid August.

There will be fewer people in Wabakimi in mid August.I know that because I have canoeed up there over the past several years for maybe a total of about 6 +months. Is it remote?... in some places it is.In other places it appears busy to me.
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fireman
Member

Post Number: 82
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 8:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

you might consider driving to Maskinonge Lake and going up through Laura Lake into McConnell Bay and then over to the Sturgeon and back down. I do not think you will find too many people there. I was out in July last year, perfect weather saw no one at all for four days.
there is one camp along the way on Maskinonge and if you like feeling remote, well, two days going down the Sturgeon seeing only the banks of the river, it might as well be Heart of Darkness.
The crossover back into Maskinonge is easy enough from the campsite at Kelly Lake Crossover.
Temagami is nothing like Algonquin in terms of people pressure. Friends did the route I described and saw no one either. The access at Roly Jonas' is fairly close, you could do it in five hours from Toronto to being on the water without a major stop along the way. And it is a beautiful route.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 827
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 - 7:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Chiniguchi is a good suggestion Fireman. There is not a lot of motorboat activity over there, access is easy and the chain of lakes up through Evelyn and Laura lakes is pretty remote.They could also start at the bottom of Mattagamasi if they did not want to travel the Sturgeon R.
The appropriate maps are here: http://www.ottertooth.com/Temagami/Sites/chiniguch i.htm
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shmerm
Member

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 - 8:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Preacher and Ed, you speak wise words. I live in NYC now, after having spent a good deal of time working and playing in the bush in NWO, I have never adapted to city life, and miss the bush often. My biggest fear is getting up there and camping in dirty campsites and scarmbling for campsites, but maybe I am preoccupied with that. In truth, anything feels remote - sometimes even Toronto! - after a few months in NYC. (okay maybe that is an exaggeration).

I guess I will just be glad to get back into the bush for a few days for a little recharge. My American husband fortunately loves these adventures I plan for us!

This area looks awesome by the maps, but the description on the links Ed sent out makes it sound fairly busy. I can't quite figure distances to guage how we could make a five day trip out of it. We like to paddle about five hours a day, and don't really plan to do much fishing, if any.

Is it possible to take this up to Evelyn and Laura?

We would theoretically be interested in the sturgeon, but would need more info on the passability/water levels before making that decision.

Thanks again for all these feedback. It's awesome, and a huge help!!
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shmerm
Member

Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 - 9:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

One other question - are the portages on these Ottertooth interactive maps in chains or metres?

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brian
Moderator

Post Number: 1203
Registered: 02-2004


Posted on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 - 9:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Metres.
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kayamedic
Member

Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 - 3:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

The other snag is that though part of Chiniguchi is an inactive PP if you are a US citizen you may need a Crown Land camping permit. Sportsmans Lodge does not sell them ( I just got an email from them). I plan to pick mine up in Sturgeon Falls.

I am going in two weeks hopefully before the rush pulls in.

Wabakimi in August when the fishermens rush is done.

Have no idea if this rule is enforced at all and if you rent a "camping unit" from an outfitter it does not apply.

(Message edited by kayamedic on June 1, 2010)
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 828
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 - 6:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

shmerm:
Let me suggest this route for 5 nights. A bit different than Fireman'ssuggestion.
Drive to Kukagami Lake.... Sportsman's Lodge.If you arrive say mid day arrange for him to shuttle you to Mattagamasi Lake put-in. Paddle north and find a campsite. You may see a few other canoeists and maybe the odd motorboat.
Next day travel to Wolf Lake, arriving say mid day or early afternoon so you get the best campsite on the east side of the lake on a high rock cliff looking over the lake..Next day travel to McConnell Bay on Chiniguchi. Next day go into Laura Lake ... swampy portage so be prepared for this one... but doable.... and go to Evelyn Lake for night 4. Next day go back into Mattagamasi and camp in the north end near the portage exit.( island that Fireman was commenting on....night 5.
Next morning go back to the start point, where you have arranged for a pick-up by Sportsman's lodge at a suitable time... maybe say noonish...
If I didn't miss something here it should be 5 nights.
Also for more information on the area and some pictures go to:http://canoedog.ca/about.asp
Click on "Summer" and then Chiniguchi and Laura for a route description and also click on Pictures.
If you are interested in this we will provide more info on how to get there etc. and contact info for Sportsmans's Lodge. This route should give you a good bit of what you are looking for.
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kayamedic
Member

Post Number: 14
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 - 9:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

info@SportsmansLodge.net

They are doing a shuttle for me from Kukagami Lake to Matagamasi mid week in a couple of weeks.

I have seven nights and plan essentially the same route except continuing down through Colin Scott and Donald back to Kukagami instead of going back along Matagasi to the original launch.

Thanks for the advice for this lurker and I think my route is reasonable. I sort of wanted to get to Kettle Falls but that would involve a whole lot of carrying for this solo senior.
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shmerm
Member

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 - 11:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Ed that sounds great. I just got Hap's book in the mail, and am going to pour over everything, including the link you just sent over, and go over the ideas with my husband. I am getting so excited to be back on the water - I really appreciate the ideas and help planning the trip!
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 829
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Wednesday, June 2, 2010 - 7:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Kayamedic's route is a nice addition to this trip if you have the extra time.
As you approach Wolf Lake don't forget to look into the Paradise Lagoon... maybe even go for a swim....McConnell Bay has 2 nice beach campsites and a third one in the bush higher up.
The Laura bog might cause you some problems, but if it is really wet go a bit to the north (your left) off the travelled path and you will get through. As you get to the edge of the bog and close to solid land watch that you don't fall off the log you are stepping on into the ooze. Fireman knows this place and so do I.
The campsite on the island on Evelyn Lake is in need of some chain saw work to remove treefalls, but was still useable last September. The site is up a bit off the water.

There is another written description of this route in Kevin Callan's book "Ontarios Lost Canoe Routes" by Boston Mills Press.
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shmerm
Member

Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Wednesday, June 2, 2010 - 9:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Ed, this looks perfect. I have looked at all the pictures on your link, and think this'll be just great. Do you think Wolf Lake will be busy on/around August 16th/17th?

I noticed that Sid's trip log is the first I have seen where rain was not a problem. Is there an unusual amount of rain in Temagami compared to other parts of the province? Or do you think it is having a wet and soggy trip that prompts people to write about it? All the rainy stories are a bit frightening.

Anyway, I think your route plan sounds just right for us! Thank you!! I think I will go ahead and order Callan's book now.

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