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Ottertooth Forums * Temagami canoe routes & backcountry travel * Archive through August 3, 2012 * Question on Route, Reservations and Permits < Previous Next >

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bjesse
Member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2012
Posted on Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 4:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi all! It seems like I've been sent in circles phoning different people to no avail, and this forum seems like a helpful bunch, so I figured I'd make some inquiries here.

I'm a staff for a summer camp, and this summer I'm looking to take a 5 night canoe trip up to Temagami sometime late July. It'll be done with 4 staff, and 10-12 fourteen year old boys and girls. The current route I'm thinking of (and would ideally love to do) is a Mowat Lady E. South Chanel Diamond Temagami Red Squirrel, and is as follows:

Day 1: Drop off Mowat ~ 10 am. Paddle Lady E. for the day, and sleep as far west on Lady E. as possible.
(a question that's been nagging me is just how much distance is realistic to cover on Lady E. in one day. If we get in the water at Mowat around 10, where can we expect to end up making site, with good winds, as well as how far is realistic if the winds aren't too kind)

Day 2: Go down Sucker lake and sleep at the top of the South Channel.

Day 3: Take a day to go down the South Channel and enjoy it, sleep at the bottom.

Day 4: Take the two-miler over to Diamond, take the rest of the day easy and sleep on Diamond as well.

Day 5: Head over to Sandy Inlet or Red Squirrel and sleep there

Day 6: Pack up and head home.

I feel like the route is sound for the most part, I just worry about time and winds on Lady E. setting us back and throwing everything to hell.

So a couple of other questions I have,
1) is it possible to get a school bus and a van+6 canoe hitch into the landing at Sandy Inlet? Or would Red Squirrel be the definitive pick-up point.
2) How exactly does one go about booking reservations and getting permits for a trip. I've tried calling Finlayson, but they're not open until May, and I would be fine waiting if it was for me, but this trip needs to be booked and set in stone within the month. As it's looking right now, I'm not even sure of which nights I actually will need a permit somewhere the whole puzzle of parks up there has been confusing me.

I'd love to take this trip out, I've been to Temagami once before and remember it being absolutely stunning. The other trips I'm running are shorter ones in Killarney, but if I had to do this one there as well, I'd feel like I'd be doing the kids a disservice. So any help would be appreciated, thanks so much!

Jesse
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grncnu
Member

Post Number: 168
Registered: 08-2010
Posted on Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

first off don't sweat the permit issue as most if not all of your route is outside the park area.
i'd say your travelling distances are reasonable. wind and other weather issues can always become an issue but lady evelyn and sucker gut don't typically pose too many problems and you're not going that far on open parts of temagami, where winds definitely can kick up big waves.
the 2 miler can vary somewhat in length depending on water levels at the diamond end (lower = longer). it is not technically difficult but will be a challenge for average 14 year olds...
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grncnu
Member

Post Number: 169
Registered: 08-2010
Posted on Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 11:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

hmm, at least diamond etc are outside what i thought was the permit area, after looking at the map i'm not sure, maybe someone else will know. in any case you do not need to reserve a campsite.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 1139
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Thursday, March 1, 2012 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Jesse:
There are no reservations needed for Temagami Area Parks.It is first come first served. But you will need permits for the Park Areas.You need a permit to camp overnight in that part of Lady Evelyn Lake that runs North/South,Sucker Gut, Willow Island and Diamond Lakes if you plan to stay overnight on any of those lakes.When you get back to Lake Temagami you do not need a permit, nor do you need one for Red Squirrel Lake.

You can pick up a permit(s) from Finlayson as you pass by on your way to Mowat or you can pick one up as you pass through the Town of Temagami from a local vendor.
Go here for Permit Info: http://www.ottertooth.com/Temagami/Canoeing/parks. htm

The Bus problem:
I don't think you should try to take a bus to Sandy Inlet. You could park it in the first parking lot, and portage your gear out to the bus from Sandy Inlet or better go through to Red Squirrel Lake and get the bus to pick you up right off the beach beside the road on Red Squirrel.Look for the Parking symbol on this map for the best pick-up spot.
Go here for a Map:
http://www.ottertooth.com/Temagami/Maps/map_tem_at las_sandy.htm

The winds on Lady Evelyn:
The prevailing winds on Lady Evelyn Lake are from the south west in the summer.If the winds are strong from the south west then they will go into the east west part of the lake and be mostly from the west, creating a problem for paddlers leaving from Mowat and travelling west.
So you should be prepared to stop at the end of the channel from Mowat if the lake is too rough and either camp there or wait a bit until the winds drop off usually in the late afternoon.
If you do get stuck here then get up real early the next morning and get going before the wind comes up. This happens maybe around 11AM and they kind of die off maybe around 5-6PM. But that is only a very rough guideline.

Then again you may be lucky and have no wind at all.In that case you could get down the arm and into the main part of the lake and maybe even into the top end of Sucker gut, but that would pushing it with kids in tow.

Some of the campsites on Lady Evelyn Lake are closed. The campsites in the area known as the dunes are closed.
http://www.ottertooth.com/Temagami/Canoeing/sites- closed.htm

You should go here: http://www.ottertooth.com/temagami.htm
and read about the area and you will find all the maps and others that I have referred to.

Hope this answers these questions. Do come back if you have more questions.
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preacher
Member

Post Number: 175
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 1, 2012 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Reservations aren't required, but you can make them and I suggest you do. At least for peace of mind.

Don't take the bus all the way to Sandy, you'll get stuck! It's not a road. It's space between trees. Maybe check with the folks at Camp Wanipitei for parking.
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bjesse
Member

Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2012
Posted on Thursday, March 1, 2012 - 3:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Ed and grncnu, thanks so much for the helpful responses! You guys are life savers.

In regards to the Permits, so it seems like I'll need for days 1-4: the stretch from the start (leaving open the chance that we may sleep on Sucker Gut the first night), until we sleep on Diamond on night 4? Does that sound right?

As well, I've been reading here that it seems like it's possible to have Permits mailed to you during the year? How would I go about looking into doing that? It would be one less thing to deal with the morning-of when we head out, and the earlier we get into the water, the better (as well as a comfort for the Director of the camp). Coming from just south of Sudbury, I'm expecting a 4 hour bus to Mowat, and I'm already not liking how we'll most likely be hitting the water mid-day.

Red Squirrel pick-up looks like the better option then. On the last day, another little bit of paddling is definitely preferable to me than having issues getting the bus to Sandy Inlet.

Thanks so much again!

(Message edited by B.Jesse on March 1, 2012)
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 1140
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Thursday, March 1, 2012 - 4:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Jesse:
You probably need 4 days.
The backcountry permit cost on ottertooth looks as if it is out of date, so check with Ontario Parks for the 2012 cost per person and make sure you tell them you have youths on the trip... lower price for them.

I have called Finlayson in the past and had permits sent to me by mail using my Visa Card. Not sure if they still do that, but I would ask. Also, usually you can get an answer at Finalyson in the off -season if the superintendant happens to be working there that day and he can advise you about permits.The opening date for Finlayson PP is May 18th this year, so for sure someone will be there then.
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grncnu
Member

Post Number: 170
Registered: 08-2010
Posted on Thursday, March 1, 2012 - 9:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

in case of severe west winds you could have a plan b, which would be to portage into sugar lake, goodfish lake, back to lady evelyn then straight down to diamond. this would shave a day (and some of the high points) off the trip, but if you get stopped by wind on day 1, and day 2 starts out just as windy, it's nice to have that option. those are both nice lakes with plenty of campsites.
maybe i've just been lucky but in numerous trips into lady evelyn from mowat I've never had really strong west winds, so i wouldn't worry about it unduly...
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brian
Moderator

Post Number: 1396
Registered: 02-2004


Posted on Friday, March 2, 2012 - 11:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Jesse, the fees shown on the parks guide on Ottertooth are up to date.

http://www.ottertooth.com/Temagami/Canoeing/parks. htm
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bjesse
Member

Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2012
Posted on Monday, March 5, 2012 - 9:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Grncnu, that seems like it's my backup if we have a rough start. Hopefully it won't come to that, but if need be, it can still be a decent canoe trip for the kids.

Thanks for the replies guys, you've all been a great help. If I have any more questions, I know where to come to! And I'll be sure to drop back in in August (couldn't come soon enough) and let you know how it went.

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