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Ottertooth Forums * Temagami canoe routes & backcountry travel * Archive through May 19, 2007 * Cassels/Blueberry Lakes vs Obabika < Previous Next >

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Archive through March 4, 2007doug_225 03-4-07  9:22 am
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curly
Member

Post Number: 40
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Sunday, March 4, 2007 - 10:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Watersong, I just noticed that this forum doesn't have PM'ing. Email me at rolajos at ontera dot net.

Doug_2, I have to agree with you about the chainsaws. However, no one should be cutting mature trees for a portage (Brian mentioned 6" diameter max. above). My feeling is that you can effectively cut any portage with hand tools. The threat to portages in the park is from two sources, one of overuse, one of underuse. ATVs can quickly overuse a portage and render it useless unless you want to be up to your hips in mud. A good example of this is the portage from the Beauty Lake Road to Tretheway Lake. The underuse threat would be due to park administrators not allowing portage maintenance on certain routes. Without either park staff or paddlers to maintain a route, it disappears. Park policies aiming to close certain routes through aggressive prosecution of adventuresome paddlers is as great a threat as ATVs. We must guard against this.
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hillbilly
Member

Post Number: 230
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Sunday, March 4, 2007 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

watersong,
I am pleased to see you want to canoe the Temagami area. E-mail me @ bsuabill@netscape.net and I would love to give you some suggestions.
Bill
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doug_2
Member

Post Number: 110
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 4, 2007 - 2:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Curly; I think we are on the same wavelength on this.
I guess I'm unsure why park adninistrators would not "want" portage maintenance on certain routes?
If there are good reasons why not, I hope they would let us know what those reasons are.
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brian
Moderator

Post Number: 663
Registered: 02-2004


Posted on Sunday, March 4, 2007 - 5:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Curly and Doug, good points.
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dave
Member

Post Number: 97
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Monday, March 5, 2007 - 1:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

you know, you could actually drive most of the way to blueberry now thanks to goulard lumber..i saw someone mentioned about a bad campsite on rabbit..since that's where my cottage is i try to clean some up when i come across a big mess..guess you can't get them all
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tsm
Member

Post Number: 95
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Monday, March 5, 2007 - 6:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

dave
I guess that was me. The site we stayed at was pretty enough, but had poop all over the place, some not 10 feet from the only useable tent pad. My BIL stepped in some while trying to find a clear path further into the woods. The site was the one at the portage into Lode Lake. We portaged the canoes up to the lake that evening to try our luck with fishing. It had been suggested to me by Doug Adams that perhaps there were brookies in that lake. Hap also eludes in his book that the fishing here might be good. We didn't catch anything, but we enjoyed our time on this beautiful lake none the less.
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curly
Member

Post Number: 41
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Monday, March 5, 2007 - 8:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I don't know why they wouldn't want to keep all the routes open. Perhaps to keep some areas more 'wild'. Or perhaps they just want to control what happens in the park. Perhaps they're afraid of liability if people, with or without their permission, hurt themselves while clearing a trail.

Whatever the reason, I'm definitely getting vibes that Parks is cracking down on unauthorized trail maintenance in their domain.
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doug_2
Member

Post Number: 111
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 - 6:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Curly: I agree with what you say above; ie; "Whatever the reason, I'm definitely getting vibes that Parks is cracking down on unauthorized trail maintenance in their domain".
I don;t think this is a surprise though. They haven;t cracked down much in the past because they didn;t have an approved operating management plan to guide detailed "direction"; only some general management statements. Once that happens they will crack down the same way they do in Algonquin or Killarney. (that's my bet anyway)
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curly
Member

Post Number: 42
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Wednesday, March 7, 2007 - 9:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

What happens in Algonquin Park if you're portaging from lake A to lake B, find a 7" diameter spruce across the trail, cut it out of the way with your handsaw, and a park warden sees you doing it?
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doug_2
Member

Post Number: 112
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 7, 2007 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Not a thing happens. Sorry; I meant using chainsaws to clear a portage. In that case permission would be required.
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curly
Member

Post Number: 43
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Wednesday, March 7, 2007 - 8:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Ahhh, in Temagami they're leaning toward busting you for using hand tools.
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doug_2
Member

Post Number: 113
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 7, 2007 - 9:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Curly:
If it is the way you describe it; that really does come as a surprise! What leads you to beleive the wardens (ie; Ontario Parks MNR) are leaning in that direction though? On any portage trail trail with "use" I can think of no reason they would bust anyone for this; in fact they should thank the people if anything. On the other hand, if this is a potential Nastawgan "corridor" that has seen so little use in recnt times that there are 7 inch diameter trees growing on the "interpreted" "treadway"; then I can understand the concern to some extent. That is the same concern I mentioned earlier in this thread. (Making sure the corridor is the correct one)...

That 7 inch diameter "rule" is more of an old Crown Land timber rule that has been on the "books' for ages. (based on marketable timber). But even then a fallen 7 inch tree is not the same as a 7 inch tree, alive, standing and healthy. Common sense hopefully prevails for the interpretation. If not, it should be taken to court (I'm thinking).

That said, if clearing the trail means that 7 inch + diameter, live , standing trees require cutting, within a wilderness park in order to maintain a trail, they might want to know why. That may make sense to me. Fallen trees, I'll bet is another story.
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ed
Moderator

Post Number: 404
Registered: 03-2004


Posted on Wednesday, March 7, 2007 - 10:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

On a wilderness canoe trip, if I come across a fresh treefall on a known portage in Temagami or any other area of the Province on Crown Land or in a Park and I can't readily move around it, I am going to cut it out.
At the very least, I am going to cut the branches off so that I can either go under it or over it with my canoe and gear so that I can safely move along the portage..

If someone has a rule in place that says I can't do that, then that rule needs to be challenged.

The rules and regulations that will apply to how MNR enforces the new Parks Act are being written at this time and will be released in the Spring for Public Comment.

If such a rule is proposed in these new Park operating regulations then we have an opportunity to protest them and we should do so.
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doug_2
Member

Post Number: 114
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 8, 2007 - 9:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I agree with you 100% Ed assuming you mean clearing downed trees on portages with hand tools.
On the other hand, I just find it hard to imagine such a rule being proposed by Ontario Parks, unless power tools are involved.

THere could be cases where Park Wardens want authority charge someone for destroying or mutilating trees on a campsites; or other similar situations. They already have that power anyway, and that is not the subject we are talking about. I mention it though as an example of things that Park Wardens should be able to enforce. I'm sure there is no debate on that.
Portages ? I'd like to think that common sense prevails and if not, yes , it should be and will be challenged.


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john_v
Member

Post Number: 63
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, March 9, 2007 - 4:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

So now I should trade my chainsaw for a bow saw and a tape measure?? This kind of over-regulation is why I started tripping in Temagami and now Temagami is becoming just another park like Algonquin. It's a shame. And it's a shame that I should even have to worry about clearing a Nastawgan with or without a chainsaw. I would still be cutting the same wood. I am going to try and get official clarification on this subject... but I can almost guarantee that means I won't be clearing any trails in Temagami, at least not this spring... ;-)
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brian
Moderator

Post Number: 664
Registered: 02-2004


Posted on Friday, March 9, 2007 - 6:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Sometimes it is better not to ask, for both parties.
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doug_2
Member

Post Number: 115
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, March 9, 2007 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Some people have actually been able to negotiate independent "contracts" to clear certain portages for Ontario Parks.

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